Canada: What happens when a crime victim takes a gun from a criminal and shoots him? The victim goes to jail

Canadian man takes gun from home invaders and shoots on of them; he is now charged with attempted murder and nine other firearms charges. From the Herald News in Nova Scotia, Canada:

A man is charged with attempted murder and a raft of firearms offences after helping fend off home invaders, one of whom he’s now charged with shooting. 

Kyle Earl Munroe was arrested on July 12 after RCMP and Halifax Regional Police responded to a report of a home invasion involving firearms at a home in Porters Lake.
Police said that three men entered the residence with guns and a struggle took place with two men inside. 

The two in the home seized a firearm from one of the suspects and several shots were fired as the suspects fled. Police later located one of the suspects, who had non-life-threatening gunshot wounds. 

Munroe faces charges of attempted murder, intent to discharge a firearm, intent to discharge a firearm when being reckless, careless use of a firearm, improper storage of a firearm, pointing a firearm, possession of a weapon for a dangerous purpose, 

unauthorized possession of a firearm, possession of a firearm knowing that possession is unauthorized, and possession for the purpose of trafficking. . . .

Police rule that student who retrieved his gun from his car at Eastern Florida State College acted in self defense against two attackers

Just in December, Florida state courts struck down university bans on having concealed handguns in people's cars.  Now a student was able to defend himself against two attackers, one of whom was armed with a pool cue.  Calk this up as another example of the benefits of concealed carry on university campuses.  The University Herald has this:

Landrick Hamilton, a 24-year-old student at Eastern Florida State College (EFSC), was invited back to campus after shooting someone in self-defense Thursday. 

Like Hamilton, Armando, 25, and Landyer, 24, Contreras are claiming they too were defending themselves, FloridaToday.com reported. The two brothers allegedly jumped Hamilton in a campus parking lot when he managed to reach his car where he had a gun stowed. He fired one shot and sent Armando to the hospital with a non-life-threatening injury. 

Palm Bay police said Armando and Landyer attacked Hamilton Thursday afternoon with a pool cue, but the state attorney has not yet decided on whether or not to file charges. 

EFSC president Jim Richey said the police's report of self defense factored into the decision to invite Hamilton back to campus. The other two people involved in the fight were not students, but Hamilton does not have a disciplinary record at the school. . . .

With cuts in police department budget, City Attorney Tells San Bernardino Residents To ‘Lock Their Doors,’ ‘Load Their Guns’

Why is it so inappropriate for the San Bernardino City Attorney to tell people to protect themselves when the police aren't able to do it?

The city attorney of San Bernardino is under scrutiny for telling residents to “lock their doors and load their guns” during a city council meeting. 

The official explained that because the city is bankrupt and slashing public safety budgets people will need to start protecting themselves. 

City Attorney Jim Penman said he doesn’t regret what he said. 

“You should say what you mean and mean what you say,” Penman said. . . .

Besides the politically correct outrage, the other sad thing about this advice is that it is essentially telling people that they have to be locked up inside their homes.  It would be nice if California joined the rest of the country and let people defend themselves when they are outside their homes.

I was just on Coast-to-Coast AM to discuss these statements.

The very weak "Affidavit of probable cause" in the George Zimmerman case

When I was chief economist at the US Sentencing Commission, I had the opportunity to read a number of "Affidavits of probable cause." In the one involving George Zimmerman, I am not sure that I have ever previously read a vague and incomplete affidavit like this. As Alan Dershowitz noted, the document doesn't include any information that favors the defendant. And the material in it, with the possible exception of the claim by Trayvon Martin's mom that Martin was the person who screamed for help, does not rule out that Zimmerman acted in self-defense. But it excludes extremely relevant information that the police knew about: the grass and wetness on the back of Zimmerman's shirt, the gashes on the back of his head, the bloody nose, and the other witness accounts that saw Martin on top of Zimmerman beating him before the shot was fired. If Zimmerman was on his back when he was being pummeled by Martin, that provides a clear reason for self-defense under traditional Florida law (with no reference to the Stand Your Ground necessary). Note if there was any evidence of racial animus on Zimmerman's part it would have been mentioned. Despite references to Zimmerman making derogatory statements about criminals, there is no mention of the claimed statement "f****** coons" that got so much attention. This confirms CNN's previous investigation into this. For those interested, here is an example of an "Affidavit of probable cause" from another case. It also seems clear that this case was overcharged. See this discussion here:

there are three typical situations that can constitute second degree murder: A killing done impulsively without premeditation, but with malice aforethought A killing that results from an act intended to cause serious bodily harm A killing that results from an act that demonstrates the perpetrators depraved indifference to human life

Malice Aforethought?

For example, in the situation above, instead of shooting Bill, Adam grabs a shovel and hits Bill on the head with all his strength. Adam didnt explicitly intend to kill Bill when he hit him, but he did intend to hit him with the tire iron, and he knew that such a blow to the head carried with it a distinct possibility of death. Adams killing of Bill in this instance also constitutes second degree murder. . . .

Act Intended to Cause Serious Bodily Harm?

The killer might not necessarily intend to kill the victim, but knows that death is a likely outcome. For example, in the situation above, instead of shooting Bill, Adam grabs a shovel and hits Bill on the head with all his strength. Adam didnt explicitly intend to kill Bill when he hit him, but he did intend to hit him with the tire iron, and he knew that such a blow to the head carried with it a distinct possibility of death. Adams killing of Bill in this instance also constitutes second degree murder.

Depraved Indifference to Human Life?

Depraved indifference to human life can mean different things in different jurisdictions, but in general it signifies that the perpetrator had an utter disregard for the potential damage to human life that their actions could cause. Going back to Adam and Bill, imagine that, instead of hitting Bill over the head with the tire iron, Adam grabbed his gun and fired in anger into a crowd of onlookers. Adam didnt necessarily mean to kill anyone, but also didnt give any thought to the harm that his actions could cause in the crowd. . . . .

Pharmacist Jeremy Hoven sues Walgreens over wrongful termination after self-defense shooting

In case you don't remember, Pharmacist Jeremy Hoven was working at a Walgreens in Michigan where he fired back at a robber after the robber tried firing his gun at Hoven. Hoven had gotten himself a permitted concealed handgun after he had experienced a robbery at another Walgreens store. It looks to me that Walgreens has gotten itself in trouble with some easily disproven statements. From the New American:

When Jeremy Hoven put his concealed carry permit to use for self-defense purposes during an armed robbery last May, he was fired by his employer, Walgreens. Though Hoven defended the use of his weapon by asserting he feared for his life, and while no one was injured during the encounter, Walgreens issued a pink slip, prompting Hoven to file a wrongful termination lawsuit.

At a Walgreens in Benton Township, Michigan, two armed robbers wearing masks burst in at 4:30 am with weapons drawn. Pharmacist Jeremy Hoven was working behind his counter when he saw the attackers grab the Walgreens store manager as a hostage. The men also jumped behind Hoven’s counter, with their weapons drawn. While one of the masked men held a gun to the head of one of the Walgreens’ employees, the other attempted to shoot Hoven three times, but his gun would not fire.

Hoven attempted to call the police, but came to realize his best defense was to return fire, and drew his own weapon, for which he possesses a concealed carry permit. He fired at the attackers, scaring them off. Hoven not only saved his own life that day, but the lives of two of his co-workers. A mere 42 seconds passed, from start to finish.

Hoven explains, “I feared for my life, and in self defense, I fired my weapon as I continued to move from him.”

“The adrenaline was taking over. You could have probably taken my pulse from my breath, because my heart was beating that much,” he adds.

Walgreens lawyers have denied most of Hoven’s claims, and even asserted that there was not an armed robbery in progress at the time Hoven fired his weapon. They claim that the company, which operates 8,000 stores in the United States, had a “plausible and legitimate business reason to justify the firing.”

However, video footage of the incident corroborates all of Hoven’s statements, and will certainly play a prominent role in the lawsuit against Walgreens. . . .

You can see the video here.



Thanks to James Drake for the link to the New American article.

Mexico: When the police can't protect you

So what do you do if the government can't protect your from crime? Well, in Mexico, it is pretty hard for you to do much of anything, legally.

BTW, one other point. Apparently I don't live next to the cool US gun stores. If the Mexican drug gangs get their weapons from the US, could someone please tell which gun stores sell anti-aircraft guns, a grenade launcher, and dozens of grenades. This is a useful article on many points.

Despite strict gun-control laws in Mexico, crime scenes are riddled with bullet holes. Both drug cartels and common criminals have guns. Now more private citizens are arming themselves for protection, even if it means breaking the law.

“People are desperate,” said Rogelio “Chief” Bravo, a private investigator in El Paso who has worked for clients just across the border in Ciudad Juarez too. “They’re telling the government, if you can’t protect us, let us protect ourselves.”

Juarez is ground zero in the drug war with 8,000 killings since the city exploded in violence in 2008.
Mexican authorities regularly display the weapons they confiscate from powerful drug traffickers.

Earlier this month, federal police raided a home in an upscale neighborhood in Ciudad Juarez looking for kidnapping victims. Instead they found a well-stocked arsenal that included three anti-aircraft guns, a grenade launcher, dozens of grenades, AK47s and several machine guns.

The stash was hidden behind a mirrored wall in a gym that opened at the touch of a button on the floor. Inside with the weapons and ammunition there was a poster of the 1983 movie drug lord “Scarface” played by Al Pacino.

Many ordinary residents in Mexico believe guns are banned.

“The Mexican constitution allows people to possess firearms,” explained John Hubert, a certified-concealed hand gun instructor in El Paso. “But over the years the government has passed so many requirements and laws and restrictions that it’s basically almost impossible.” . . . .

Gun owners in Mexico by law must register their weapons with the military, which is the only authorized gun dealer. Any weapon above 22 calibers is only authorized for military use.

“People cannot defend themselves,” said Bravo, the private investigator as he practiced his shot at a shooting range in El Paso. He then demonstrated the tiny bullet hole from a 22 compared to the larger 9 mm, or even larger 40 caliber firearm on the target. . . .

Canadian prosecutors offer lighter sentence to criminal in exchange for him testifying against citizen who used gun in self-defense

This is pretty bizarre. Who is the real threat in Canada, the law-abiding citizen who tries to defend himself or the criminal?

Few politicians, Crown prosecutors, judges, law professors and police commanders believe ordinary Canadians have any business using force to defend themselves, their loved ones, homes, farms or businesses.
It seems every time someone repels a burglar or thief, he ends up in court, too.
Consider the case of David Chen, the Toronto grocer who was acquitted last year of assault and unlawful confinement for detaining a career criminal he caught shoplifting from his store. Crown prosecutors had so convinced themselves that Chen's defensive actions posed a greater threat to public order that they offered a lighter sentence to Anthony Bennett, the shoplifter, in return for his testimony against Chen. . . .
About six years ago, Ian Thompson moved to a rural property near Port Colborne to find peace and quiet. Almost immediately, he had a run-in with his neighbour over the neighbour's unwillingness to keep his chickens in his own yard. Ever since, tension between the two has escalated.
Then, early one Sunday morning last August, three masked men showed up outside Thompson's home and started lobbing Molotov cocktails at the house while Thompson was inside. A former firearms instructor, Thompson took a revolver from his gun safe, loaded it, then went outside and fired two or three shots in the direction of the arsonists. Thompson has surveillance cameras around his property. When he gave tapes to police to aid their search for the firebombers, police charged him with pointing a firearm and careless storage of firearms.
Officers also turned up at his home and confiscated his collection of seven firearms and seized his firearms licence. . . .

Even judges use guns for self-defense

This self-defense example was covered by the Associated Press.

AUGUSTA, Ga. -- Officials in Richmond County say a man who was shot after a break-in at the home of Superior Court Judge Carlisle Overstreet has died at the Medical College of Georgia Hospital.
Richmond County sheriff's Capt. Scott Peebles said Overstreet shot one of two men who broke into his home early Friday.
Chief Deputy Coroner Mark Bowen says 20-year-old John E. Howard Jr. died about an hour after he was shot.
The judge told police he heard a noise, got up and discovered two men in his home. He says he pulled out a gun and fired a shot.
Richmond County deputies are still searching for a second person involved in the break-in.

UK teen who saves his mother from being killed arrested by police

How self defense is treated these days in the UK:

The friend of a teenager arrested on suspicion of murder described him as a 'hero' today for trying to defend his mother from a knife attack.
Schoolboy James Killen, 18, was held by police after next-door neighbour Jonathan London, 46, died of stab wounds.
It is believed Mr London attacked the teenager's mother, former air stewardess Sandra Crawford, at her home in St Alban's, Herts on Friday.
Mr Killen was arrested on suspicion of stabbing to death Mr London but later released on bail.
It is believed the teenager, a student at nearby Sandringham School, attacked Mr London after he discovered him slashing his mother.
Today his close friend Ben Riddell, 18, also from St Albans, said 'kind and gentle' James was desperately trying to defend his petite mother.
Ben, a fellow sixth-form pupil at Sandringham, said James came downstairs and initially thought his mother was being punched repeatedly by Mr London.
He said: 'James is one of the kindest, most gentle people I've ever known. . . .
'Apparently at 8.40am on Friday morning the man just walked in off the street and James came downstairs to his mum's screams and thought the man was punching her.
'He jumped on his back and got the knife and managed to kill him. . . .
Yesterday, an au pair described the bloody aftermath of the fight.
Livia Frakas, a 27-year-old au pair from Slovakia, was taking her employer’s two children to school when she heard a man’s ‘furious yell’ before finding Ms Crawford ‘covered in blood’ outside her £600,000 home in St Albans, Herts.
She said: ‘She was in a nightdress and pyjamas, blood was everywhere, all over her body and her face as well.’
She said a younger man, believed to be James, then emerged from the house looking ‘shocked and desperate’.
She added: ‘He was crying for help. He was in his school uniform. He was on the phone to the ambulance and I heard him give the name of the road.’ . . .

A post gunfight interview: Walgreens shooting in Omaha, Nebraska

The interview is almost a half hour long, but it is quite interesting (available here).

From the Omaha World-Herald

Harry James McCullough took it personally. The former security guard was standing at a Walgreens checkout counter when he saw two masked men, one with a sawed-off shotgun, enter the store. Marquail Thomas, 18, pointed the shotgun at customers and yelled, “Nobody (expletive) move!''

“There's no doubt in my mind what they were going to do,” McCullough said Thursday. “There was no time to react. You only have one chance.”

McCullough pulled out a pistol and shot Thomas four times. Thomas collapsed outside the store and died later at a hospital.

McCullough chased down the second masked man, whom Omaha police have identified as Angelo Douglas, 17, and held him until officers arrived. Jauvier Perkins, 15, who police said was the getaway driver, was arrested Wednesday.
Prosecutors said all three are known gang members.

McCullough said he had no idea whom he was dealing with.

“I took it personal,” he said. “I was the only one in that situation that could have made it any better, so I took action.”

McCullough said he never expected something like this to happen at his neighborhood drugstore, which he visits at least once a month to pick up a prescription for migraine headaches.

“I didn't have time to be scared,” he said. “It happened so quickly. You have to swell up and be bigger than your surroundings. If you portray yourself as big as a bear, you are a bear.” . . .

"Death Wish" British Style

Charles Bronson became famous as the New York City who became a one-man vigilante squad. Playing the role of Paul Kersey, the Bronson character sought revenge after his wife is brutally murdered by street thugs. I response Bronson tries to reduce crime on the mean streets of NYC after dark. He tries to make it risky for the criminals to hunt down victims by letting them know that sometimes victims can defend themselves. Well, I just saw a trailer for a movie called Harry Brown starting the incredible Michael Caine. I don't go out to see many movies, but Caine is such a powerful actor that I am really looking forward to this movie.

Synopsis: Set in modern day Britain, HARRY BROWN follows one man’s journey through a chaotic world where teenage violence runs rampant. As a modest, law abiding citizen, Brown lives alone. His only companion is his best friend Leonard. When Leonard is killed, Brown reaches his breaking point. HARRY BROWN is a powerful, character driven thriller starring two-time Academy Award® winner Michael Caine in a tour-de-force performance.

The trailer for the movie can be found here. A small segment of the movie can be seen below.

British woman in trouble with police for waving a knife at two peeping Toms who had broken into her garage and were looking into a widow of her home

The BBC has this discussion, but the radio interview that they have available has significantly more information.

Television presenter, Myleene Klass, has criticised the law after being spoken to by police for waving a knife at two people who had peered through a window at her home.
The former pop star was at home with her young daughter when she spotted the teenagers and she grabbed a knife and in an effort to get them to leave.
Klass said the law is "ridiculous" stressing that everyone should have the right to protect their family and property at "any lengths possible".

Another BBC piece is here, though it also doesn't go into quite the detail of her radio interview.

The former pop star was in the kitchen when she spotted the teenagers and grabbed a knife and banged the windows in an effort to get them to leave.
She says Hertfordshire Police officers told her that brandishing an "offensive weapon" was illegal.
But a police spokeswoman said that "at no point" were any warnings given.
The 31-year-old was at her Potters Bar home on Friday with her daughter upstairs when she spotted the youths peering into the house.
Klass said: "It was a scary incident but I've got no regrets as to how I reacted. I think I did what any other mother would do.
"This is my house and that's my daughter up there and I will do anything to protect my daughter and my family. That's what I did."
The star was speaking at the launch of new ITV1 series Popstar To Operastar - which features former chart stars as they try to make it as classical singers.
'Utmost respect'
Klass's spokesman, Jonathan Shalit, told the Sunday Telegraph the singer had been "utterly terrified" and was stepping up security at her home.
"Myleene was aghast when she was told that the law did not allow her to defend herself at home," he said.
"All she did was scream loudly and wave the knife to try and frighten them off.
"She is not looking to be a vigilante, and has the utmost respect for the law, but when the police explained to her that even if you're at home alone and you have an intruder, you are not allowed to protect yourself, she was bemused." . . .

Self defense in the UK

The full article is here. The government claims that "excessive" force was used here.

Millionaire faces jail for attack on knife raider at his home
By COLIN FERNANDEZ
The Daily Mail (UK)
Last updated at 9:27 AM on 11th September 2009
Comments (375)

A millionaire businessman is facing jail for attacking a career criminal who had held his family hostage at knifepoint.
Munir Hussain, 52, was told he would be killed when three raiders invaded his home.
He and his wife, their teenage daughter and two sons were ordered to lie on the floor of the living room with their hands behind their backs.
But the Hussains' teenage son managed to escape through a window and when the men realised that, two of them fled.
Hussain then threw a coffee table at the third man, 56-year-old Walid Salem, hitting him in the face. His older son Awais, 20, joined the fight and although Salem tried to escape he was bundled into a nearby garden.
Neighbours in High Wycombe, Buckinghamshire, then saw several men beating him with weapons including a cricket bat and a metal pole. He was left with injuries including a fractured skull and bruising on the brain.
Hussain denied attacking Salem, claiming it was a group of local youths. But a jury at Reading Crown Court found him guilty of inflicting grievous bodily harm with intent.
His brother Tokeer, 35, was convicted on the same charge but the jury failed to reach a verdict on their nephew Wahleed Hussain, 20.
Judge John Reddihough freed the brothers on bail until October 9, but warned them that this did not mean they would not be jailed. The maximum sentence for GBH with intent is life.
A family member said last night: 'This is one more shocking blow for a man who thought he had suffered enough last September. We are absolutely devastated, it's hard to believe in justice any more.'
In a further twist, legal sources said Mr Salem would be eligible for criminal injury compensation - with a fractured skull worth around £6,000 - even though he recovered to commit further crimes.
The court heard that Salem, from Borehamwood, had a long criminal record, with over 50 convictions.
In contrast, Munir Hussain, an engineer by training, had an impeccable character. He came to Britain in 1964 and founded a company which employs nine people and had a £2.4million turnover last year. . . .

Thanks very much to Karl Christensen for the link.

"Mom of crazed chimpanzee, Travis, also shot dead during rage in 2001"

This is certainly a weird story. Everyone knows how the police were recently called upon to shoot a chimp that had "chewed" off a woman's face. A very similar incident apparently happened eight years ago, but with a different outcome. The chimp who was recently shot had his mom shot in 2001 when she attacked a person. Unlike the police, however, the guy who shot the previous chimp went to jail. While some aspects of the original story were contested, in retrospect it appears more likely that the person who shot the chimp was acting in self defense as claimed.

"A jury convicted Coats of misdemeanor animal abuse. He was sentenced to 30 days in jail."

Thanks to Gus Cotey for the link.

Woman fatally shots rapist who broke into her home

A dramatic self-defense story in Cape Girardeau, Missouri.

Cops: Cape Girardeau woman kills man who returned to rape her second time
By Heather Ratcliffe
ST. LOUIS POST-DISPATCH
10/31/2008
An intended rape victim shot and killed her attacker this morning in Cape Girardeau when he broke into her home to rape her a second time, police said.

The 57-year-old woman shot Ronnie W. Preyer, 47, a registered sex offender, in the chest with a shotgun when he broke through her locked basement door. The woman told police he was the same man who raped her several days earlier. Officials do not intend to seek charges against her.

In the first incident, the woman heard glass breaking in her basement about midnight on Saturday. She went to leave the house, and the man attacked when she opened the front door. He punched her in the face and then forced her into a bedroom, where he raped her, said H. Morley Swingle, prosecuting attorney in Cape Girardeau County.

The victim reported the crime to police, and her landlord repaired the broken window.

She was home alone again Friday about 2:15 a.m. when Preyer broke the same basement window. The victim was awake watching television, when Preyer switched off the electricity to her house.

She tried to call 911, but couldn't because the power was off. She got a shotgun and waited as the man began banging on the basement door. She fired when Preyer came crashing through the door. When Preyer collapsed, the woman escaped and went to a neighbor's home, where she called police. Officers, who arrived within a minute, found a bleeding Preyer stumbling away from the house. He was taken to St. Francis Medical Center, where he died several hours later.

Swingle said the victim identified Preyer as the attacker in both incidents. Preyer, of Jackson, Mo., had wet caulking from the recently repaired basement window on his clothing when he was shot.

"I will not be filing any sort of charge against this 57-year-old woman, who was clearly justified under the law in shooting this intruder in her home," Swingle said.

Thanks very much to Anthony Troglio for this link.

A very funny TV segment from Boston Legal on self defense

You can listen to the piece by clicking here.

Thanks to Steve Ruden for sending this to me.

"Judge Advises Crime VictimTo Arm Herself After Attack"

The Chattanoogan (TN) wrote:

General Sessions Court Judge Bob Moon said Friday that crime in Chattanooga "has become so rampant that it is no longer possible for the police department to protect our citizens."

He told a woman who had been pulled from her car and beaten in the head that she or her mother needed to "purchase a weapon, obtain a gun permit and learn to protect yourself." The woman moved back in with her mother after the May 4 incident on E. 17th Street.

Judge Moon said, "The U.S. Supreme Court has ruled that all citizens have a right to purchase a weapon to defend themselves, their families and their homes - unless there is some disqualification that prevents them from owning a weapon.

He said, "All area of our city are subject to crime, and some areas have very high crime rates and need to be 'overpoliced.'" . . .

"Pizza deliveryman who shot robber had gun permit"

A Domino’s pizza deliveryman who shot and killed a would-be robber in Pagedale has a valid permit to carry a weapon and appears to have acted in self-defense, according to St. Louis County police.

UPDATE: This is disappointingly true:

The pizza delivery driver who fatally shot a robber last week could have faced discipline over the incident had he not resigned, a Domino's spokesman said Wednesday.

Although the driver was being praised by bloggers with comments such as "Score one for the good guys," many corporations, like Domino's, prohibit armed employees. . . .

I assume that at least part of this due to expectations of liability. This in turn effects insurance rules. If the legal set up were changed, I think that many firms would start to let employees carry guns.

Permit Holder Pizza Delivery man kills robber

PAGEDALE, Mo. (AP) _ A pizza delivery man is claiming self-defense for the fatal shooting of a man in suburban St. Louis.

The incident happened last night in Pagedale. St. Louis County police spokeswoman Tracy Panus says two men called in a pizza order, then tried to rob the man who brought the pizza. . . . .

Why off-duty police (and their wives) should carry concealed handguns

Before, he never carried an off-duty weapon. Now he does. He never wanted his three children to be around guns; now his wife has a gun permit.